Bordering on Ridiculous?
According to amendments to laws today , Armenians now must pass a medical exam at a polyclinic every 10 years in order to continue driving.
The government is shortly to publish a list of “ailments” that it considers to impair driving. The list for women is much longer than mens.
Particularly odd for me is the need for women to pass a gyneocological examination before they can be considered fit to drive.
Bizarre
It is such a pain to see more and more Armenians associating the phrase ‘typical Armenian’ with everything negative and pessimistic. Why do we, the same Armenians, say this? Isn’t there anything good about Armenians any more? or may be there wasn’t even? Or those are the bad Armenians? We are ALL equally responsible for what is happening in our country. The intellectual capital is flowing out, becoming even more knowledgeable and starting to criticise from the far abroad, but having no tangible influence or whatsoever on the current developments…
The stupidity with the driving law is not the only one in its category but there are much bigger problems in Armenia, which are destroying the country every minute. In this situation, debates about driving or crematoriums laws are just useless and can only draw-off public attention from real problems…
Let’s think of action if we are really concerned with the future of our country, otherwise we are all good at talking.
Comment by Krist Marukyan — 4/23/2006 @ 7:35 pm
Dear Glogrel,
This is quite absurd of course, but nothing out of the ordinary in many countries. The purpose of a gyneocoligical examination, however, goes beyond even the wildest imaginations of what could possibly the capacity of driving. The truth of the matter is, though, that Armenia seems to be heading towards the west also in this respect. Medical examinations like these are not uncommon, and doctors in many countries are obliged to report on patients with deficiencies affecting their ability to drive. Thus, news to Armenia but perhaps not to many other absurd countries in the world.
Yours,
Vilhelm
Comment by Vilhelm Konnander — 4/23/2006 @ 7:40 pm
Sounds like the Greek requirements to swim in a public swimming bath. You need three medical certificates for your heart, for gynaecology and for something else I can’t remember, but not your feet, which might make some sense.
It’s just a scam for the medical prefession to earn 90 Euros, since they don’t bother to examine you anyway.
But you need to do it annually I think, so in Armenia its not so bad
))?
Comment by varske — 4/24/2006 @ 1:18 am
although the second comment explains clearly what is the purpose of such exams in Armenia, I can not disagree with the first comment, that armenian population, not only the disgusting rulers of the country, become increasingly shovinistic and nationalistic.
Comment by Գագիկ — 4/24/2006 @ 5:33 am
I fully agree that this “typical Armenian” attitude is very saddening. Have we forgotten why we read this website, why we visit groong website, why we speak an age old language, why we listen to the songs we sing, and why we are having this discussion?
It boils down to one fact: Armenian.
So perhaps we are all “typically Armenian” for being here.. and I’m not ashamed of that fact one bit.
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Comment by firefly — 4/24/2006 @ 11:31 pm
What is so ridiculous about the law? If you are the type of person who, not only doesn’t go for a yearly check-up, but avoids the clinic for–more than ten years at a time–, then I think it’s a damn good idea to drag your ass into the clinic to make sure that your negligence with regard to your body isn’t endangering others.
Stupid laws–and the driving law is NOT one of these–are endemic to government. Here are three examples of from Iowa:
1. A man with a moustache may never kiss a woman in public.
2. One-armed piano players must perform for free.
3. Kisses may last for no more than five minutes.
source: http://tinyurl.com/nb2xe
And you think the driving law is stupid? And it’s stupid in an–Armenian–way? I think you are making your associations a little gratuitously.
Comment by Armen Filadelfiatsi — 4/26/2006 @ 1:59 am
Dear all,
would anyone please explain or try to define what you mean with shovinism and/or nationalism? What is there shovinistic or nationalistic about the laws or anything elese currently occuring in Armenia?
Many thanks!
Comment by Krist Marukyan — 4/26/2006 @ 11:17 pm
Hey Krist,
I do not want even to reflect on this driving rules, but please take a moment and read news about dead of the indian student. Actually read comments made by some ordinary people. It is shameful.
Comment by Գագիկ — 4/27/2006 @ 4:15 am
I am aware of the dead of the Indian student and have to say that Qyalyan is not an embodiment of a ‘typical Armenian’… On the other hand, there are other allegations stating that there was another reason behind the whole buzz; i.e. the so-called anti-social behaviour of the Indian students. There was a piece of news stating that they have been beating and seriously injuring each other after playing cricket. As a result several of them were detained and the university was considering to expel those students anyway. Therefore, the unrest taking place after the death of the student was only to cover the real reasons behind.
However, nobody can be 100% sure as to which standpoint is the valid and correct one. Moreover, it is not THE case to point out the chauvinism or nationalism of ‘those Armenians’… let’s be more accurate and responsible in our statements and try to add value rather than gossip producing no good.
BTW, why are we discussing these things under the driving law issue at all?
Comment by Krist Marukyan — 4/27/2006 @ 2:41 pm
because it goes into the same issue:
women rights and attitude of Armenians to the gender, attitude toward the indians, who are suddenly all whores according to Qyalyan and antisocial according to you, the habbit of accusingh a polititian one doesn’t like a homosexual. I do think that a “typical Armenian” posses very good qualities, but narrowmindness, sense of superiority based on ethnic, gender or sexual orientation are not one of these.
Comment by Գագիկ — 4/27/2006 @ 10:53 pm
Thanks for clarifications! (I am sorry I cannot read your name, which is perhaps written with Sylfaen)
One correction: I did not say that all Indian students are antisocial or behave like that… please do not mix the colours.
As to the sexual orientation, here we are touching a very sensitive issue for the whole traditional world in general and for Armenians in particular. It’s a matter of values and morals and the interpretation of those, which goes well beyond the opinions of one or two corrupt and narrowminded politicians… This is an issue, which is promoted by the Human Rights, which itself is in crisis in terms of defining how far and to what extent the so-called rights can be stretched; what is the limit? if there is any and so on…
Armenia, as a small and very dependent country, has to define a set of values for itself if it ever desires to maintain its famed identity. We have to have a definite answer to what we mean by HAY. We are shouting all around the world that we are the oldest nation, with such a unique culture and identity, that we are the first to adopt Christianity (and not to be converted to) and so on and so forth… and yet the vast majority of ‘automatically’ baptised Armenian Apostolic Christians do not even know their own creed or why they are called Armenian Apostolic and not Roman Catholic… the problem is much deeper, it goes back to the last 2-300 years of deterioration of our value system, which allows us to be ‘Christian’ and the followers of Sodom and Gomorra at the same time… my views may sound radical but this is the view of the Armenian Apostolic Church, (BTW, radix, in Latin, means root, those roots that we are so much proud of…) which I try to follow trully… I am not judging the non-believers or those bearing different/alternative views, instead I am trying to point out the sin based on my belief and value system.
In 1880, Dostoyevsky penned his famous warning: “if God does not exist, then everything is permissible.”
So everyone is free to make his/her own assumptions and live with those… Armenia is not the US, what works there or what is good there, may not be necessarily good for Armenia… Currently we have what we have, I mean the cultural and traditional heritage and the nowadays state, there are two big choices: we either give up everything ‘old’ and embrace anything ‘new’ without questioning its long-term impact or we go through a national Renaissance, recover our lost identity and start developing our homeland led by pro-Armenian interests and not by pro-Russian, pro-American, pro-EU or whatsoever…
Comment by Krist Marukyan — 4/28/2006 @ 1:43 am
I’m going to leave a naive but hopeful comment… Can we plz do this …
“we go through a national Renaissance, recover our lost identity and start developing our homeland led by pro-Armenian interests and not by pro-Russian, pro-American, pro-EU or whatsoever… ”
I’d REALLY like it…
Comment by SAM — 4/28/2006 @ 6:44 am
Krist, my name is Gagik, as of the Armenian king that took the throne in 990 AD.
It is written in Armenian, Mashtoc-ian letters, UNICODEd version for computer use. I am not religious, which does not mean that I am not an Armenian, or not a typical Armenian. Although I admit that Armenian church due to the historic realm is something different than say a roman catholic, and that I am educated in traditions of christian values, i do not find a religion necessary attribute to be an Armenian or judge people from the aspect of faith.
Comment by Գագիկ — 4/28/2006 @ 8:00 pm
As for Dostoevsky’s words, whom I respect very much…..
Try to solve an inverse problem: you see the way Armenian corrupt and selfish rulers destroy the country? you see what happened in 1915 and before and after.
The list of “unpermissable” things goes on and on. Do you think if God exists those things could happen? Fcuking a donkey is not the most terrible thing god loving people do on this Earth.
Comment by Գագիկ — 4/28/2006 @ 8:10 pm
Gagik jan, I apologised for not being able to see your name but did not ask you to give me a historic background on it and explain that the letters are Mashtotsain. I have enough IT literacy to understand that it was Sylfaen, which is not available on Windows 2000 by default. I am using computers at the University lab in the UK and have no privileges for installing new fonts. I think the information is now well enough for you to make better and more correct assumptions about me…
As to Christianity, it is not just one of the religions in Armenia, it is the backbone of Armenia and if you take it out then it becomes really easy to destroy anything we call Armenian. Paskevich said “the unity of this nation is in its church” and he was not the only person realising that. So the continuous detachment of Armenians from the church allowed many to destroy and rule it till now…
I said I am not judging anyone but I am identifying the sin or the evil (or at least what is good and what is bad) based on the value system of my Church.
As to the “impermissible” things you listed, I can only say that man have free will and are responsible for everything they do. If they decide to serve the evil that’s their CHOICE, (one of the buzz words of this era)… God teaches us how to live but doesn’t dictate it, we either choose to do so or not. Whether there is God or there is not, I can only tell you that I believe in God! If you want to know more about why evil things happen on the earth (at least from the standpoint of the Armenian Apostolic Church) and Armenian Christianity in general, the best thing I can recommend is to visit:
http://www.vem.am/?go=programs
There are a large number of discussions on spiritual topics as well as the Catechism of Orthodox Faith available for download in mp3 format.
Would you please tell me what do you consider the most correct aspect from, which you can judge people? If it is Human Rights, then please try to answer the questions I posed above in this regard, under the post number 14.
Comment by Krist Marukyan — 4/28/2006 @ 10:17 pm
Just thought this is a good essay for all those who are interested in interrelatedness of history, religion, politics and international relations…
http://www.aei.org/publications/pubID.22139/pub_detail.asp
It is also available in PDF format.
Comment by Krist Marukyan — 4/29/2006 @ 2:26 am
U guys are making big deal out of this. it doesnt even apply to most of u. ppl there dont care.
Comment by Ani — 4/29/2006 @ 10:25 am
Однажды змей Каталикос,
Настроив всех армян нос в нос,
Изрек:
Comment by Armen — 4/29/2006 @ 11:08 am
Krist,
I understand the importance of Armenian Church during 600-900 years since Armenia lost its statehood. In the absence of statehood the Armenian Church took important functions (positive functions) of the state and preserved Armenian Nation. That is why I mentioned above the unique character of our church compared to other churches that usually were tool of oppression or at least a tool to keep in check the masses for the corresponding states. Even in our days in a most technologically advanced countries like USA church plays huge role in justifying US president policies, which I think is a shame This is the aspect of the church I detaste.
Armenia is now a state, it is “independent” country. We do not need Church to mingle in social, political life of the state. We should ensure that Armeniannes is preserved through the normally (less corruption, more democracy) functioning of an Armenian State.
We also have large diaspora. I know the role church plays in bringing these people together, cementing ties. But frankly I would prefer to see all that money that armenians abroad spent on erecting church after church to be spent on cultural centers, libraries, schools, hospitals, etc. Now in Armenia every big thief (so called oligarch) builts his own churche. They hope it will help them go to heaven. I bet if they pay taxes instead, donate money to social programs, they will be closer to the place that does not exist anyway.
As for moral values, I thing I do have them. They are built on complex of my ethnic background, my formal and unformal education, my life experience, which includes also intimate knowledge of other nations and cultures. I prefer to choose my values based on this complex, than follow a single book.
Comment by Գագիկ — 4/29/2006 @ 11:41 pm
Gagik,
I completely agree with your first paragraph!
I partially agree with the second and third ones. I know the Armenian Church has to rehabilitate itself to serve the nation better but we do not give that time to our Church, instead we promote and encourage the entrance of other ‘churches’ with hugely distructive effects for the same nation. As to the construction of new Churches, when all those Churches were built during the history it was not because the people were rich and were using their additional sources of incomes… but I agree what you say about the oligarchs. Our Diaspora doesn’t give money for other purposes mostly because of lack of control and huge extent of uncertainty (I think so).
I trully respect the values that you are led by but I would also like to point out that the Armenian Apostolic Church is one of the rare churches that accepts the Bible as the records of revelation rather than a Revelation itself. This is very fundamental and important issue, i.e. the heritage left by the Church Fathers are the main sources of interpretation of that complex ’single book’. In contrary to this approach, almost all sects and so called ‘Christian churches’ recognise that ’single book’ as the Revelation, which has passed through so many different translations and editions (ignoring the warning not to add or deduct anything) and is now being ‘interpreted’ by anyone who can read…
Do we want them to teach our children what is right and what is wrong? May be we don’t but they do… because they are more ‘competitive’ in the current world and know how to ’sell their god’… our ignorance towards our Church allows them to do so very successfully…
I want to repeat, that our Church needs time to rehabilitate, it is ‘ill’ now… if my brother is ill I don’t leave him and seek a new, healthy brother for me…
Comment by Krist Marukyan — 4/30/2006 @ 1:39 am
“Yerb dnum em im meghkere ksherki mi nzharin, isk myusin ashkharhi meghkere, eli im koghmi nzharn aveli tsanr e. Tyar, toghutyun em haytsum…”
Sorry guys, could not help but commenting… A wisdom from “Narek”… This is how we need to teach our children find the truth…
“yes achk u du luis hogi…”
this is a way they should re-learn to love
“Hey jan harenik, inchkan sirun es…”
maybe this is how we should teach them live
There are things forieng to the Armenian soul, and they will always remain unaccepted, because this is the land where Noah landed, this is the land that was firstly Christianed, this is the land where…
Gagik… you said: “for moral values, I think I have them…?” you think? or you have them? Let me tell you one more thing: values are not chosen to adopt, you are born with values, it is in your blood and passed to you through nursing… and you do not choose your values, values are a part of you, and if you choose to change them, then it is not you… you may only subscribe to the society’s values and perform under that umbrella… Now with this amalgam of true/wrong I believe it takes a quite egoistic personality to “choose” their own values in the “complex” and go against the universal and against the accepted… I believe that while understanding that there has to be something quite Armenian to help Armenia sustain as an independent country [as you were stating in your message], yet choosing to perform otherwise within the Armenian aura…? Isn’t that a sign of weakness? That tells me that the person does not know how else to make himself visible, thus brings his/her sexuality as a way to be “different”, and often cases un-natura…
We can write endlessly about this, and can agree to disagree, but I do support Krist’s standpoint that at one point we need to stop losing our treasures, and start thinking about our future generations… What are we leaving for them?
It is amazing that even in afterwar Balkans and rural Egypt people are living with theses concerns, while we are still debating, re-discovering, and taking things not seriously…
Hargankneris havastike,
Meri
Comment by Meri — 5/4/2006 @ 8:25 pm
“Yerb dnum em im meghkere ksherki mi nzharin, isk myusin ashkharhi meghkere, eli im koghmi nzharn aveli tsanr e. Tyar, toghutyun em haytsum…”
Sorry guys, could not help but commenting… A wisdom from “Narek”… This is how we need to teach our children find the truth…
“yes achk u du luis hogi…”
this is a way they should re-learn to love
“Hey jan harenik, inchkan sirun es…”
maybe this is how we should teach them live
There are things forieng to the Armenian soul, and they will always remain unaccepted, because this is the land where Noah landed, this is the land that was firstly Christianed, this is the land where…
Gagik… you said: “for moral values, I think I have them…?” you think? or you have them? Let me tell you one more thing: values are not chosen to adopt, you are born with values, it is in your blood and passed to you through nursing… and you do not choose your values, values are a part of you, and if you choose to change them, then it is not you… you may only subscribe to the society’s values and perform under that umbrella… Now with this amalgam of true/wrong I believe it takes a quite egoistic personality to “choose” their own values in the “complex” and go against the universal and against the accepted… I believe that while understanding that there has to be something quite Armenian to help Armenia sustain as an independent country [as you were stating in your message], yet choosing to perform otherwise within the Armenian aura…? Isn’t that a sign of weakness? That tells me that the person does not know how else to make himself visible, thus brings his/her sexuality as a way to be “different”, and often cases un-natura…
We can write endlessly about this, and can agree to disagree, but I do support Krist’s standpoint that at one point we need to stop losing our treasures, and start thinking about our future generations… What are we leaving for them?
It is amazing that even in afterwar Balkans and rural Egypt people are living with theses concerns, while we are still debating, re-discovering, and taking things not seriously…
Hargankneris havastike,
Meri
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